Comments on: If Everything Burned…

By: toeteaknow

toeteaknow — Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:02:23 +0000

Alan - it’s an uphill climb. I heard one of our ‘interns’ speak last night re what ‘makes God smile’. While he had some good points, one of them was that God smiles when ‘we are fruitful’. I turned to my husband and asked “so, does that mean doesn’t smile at us when we aren’t fruitful?”. That’s really what will be taken away from the discussion. And this isn’t coming from some oldtimer - it was from a 20 something year old. As long as ‘fruit’ is equated to ‘baptisms’ and not to ‘love’ or another quality that is reflective of a Christian (and fruit is what attracts animals, etc to the seed in nature so that the tree/bush can replicate) we will continue to miss the point.

ttk

By: Alan

Alan — Thu, 14 Jun 2007 01:21:34 +0000

One day maybe we will all be mature enough to be content in all circumstances–when numbers are climbing and when they are not; in times like February 2003, and times like the present. None of those circumstances should dictate whether or not we have the peace of God.

By: beg

beg — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:39:10 +0000

That is a good line TTK. Good stuff to Pink.

I saw something on PBS a few months back about Johnstown. Take away some of the obvious sin and the Kip’s just like him. He get’s his security from numbers and praise. He seems to be a really insecure guy.

By: pinakidion

pinakidion — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 05:05:02 +0000

Bobber: I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, the statistics for the large denomination were the Latter-Day-Saints.

By: salguod

salguod — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 04:25:30 +0000

Kelcy’s blogging again?!? How do you find all this stuff? That’s great.

I always felt his icocinfo was a better site than DT. I wrote to DT when I gave up telling them it was too expensive and the quality was not up to a site that cost so much. The real reason it’s so expensive is not the running of the site, it’s the staff, i.e. Roger. I don’t begrudge Roger having a job at DT, but don’t tell us it costs a lot to have a web site. It doesn’t. It costs a lot to have a web site with a full time staff.

By: Bobber

Bobber — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:23:58 +0000

Hmmm. Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormans. Both successful cults (they deny certain fundamental Christian doctrine) that have good numbers in many parts of the world. We can’t go by numbers alone. This gets back to a misinterpretation of fruit. Fruit == baptism == numbers. Too narrow and unbiblical.

By: Milly

Milly — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:29:47 +0000

Worshiping the dream and not God explains a few churches out there. Good line.

By: toeteaknow

toeteaknow — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:09:01 +0000

“Roger does apologize for his part in idolizing Kip.”

no he doesn’t. he apologizes for ‘over honoring’. There is a big difference in what is implied. ‘Idolatry’ is a sin. ‘Over honoring’ does not convey sin but an admittance of just being too nice to someone and will be inferred as full of good intent.

BTW - Kip’s latest sermon - Marty and Cathy are there. Kip says Marty doesn’t agree totally w/Kip but they share the same ‘dream’. As you listen to the sermon substitute the word “God” for every time you hear the word “dream” and you will soon realize that Kip worships the dream and not God. It explains a lot.

By: pinakidion

pinakidion — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 05:40:30 +0000

Thanks P. Allan as always.

salguod: It’s worth it to me for the good stories. Still, Kelcy has a site again and its amazing what he’s able to do for free.

One thing of note: Roger does apologize for his part in idolizing Kip. That’s a big deal. However, as whole series thus far is rather condescending. Someone left a lantern carelessly on the internet? Just be plain:

Henry wrote to the WSL’s on Jan 30, 2003. Matt Wolpert released HKL on Jan 31, 2003 on ICCDF. Henry edited his letter and released it to the public (which had already read it) on Feb 2, 2003.

If you think Henry is evil for what he wrote, just say so. If you think Matt was irresponsible, say so. It’s not really hard to be straightforward.

Anywho, the fastest growing church in the US was Joel Osteen’s church - it grew by over 13,000 in one year. The fastest growing outside the US was a Pentecostal church in Columbia (forgot the name), they grew by 5,000 in 2006. Would DToday or Kip acknowledge either of those churches as from God?

Our friend in the City of Angels, by the way, is boasting about whom has converted back to his church. He says that Marty Wooten will teach in his LA franchise, something I find very hard to believe. That’s the subject of another post…

By: salguod

salguod — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 03:43:52 +0000

I haven’t read the article (I gave up my DT subscription. Not worth $40 IMO), but I had a similar reaction to that snippet. Just because the growth or numbers are there doesn’t mean it’s from God. Isn’t that the same logic our friend from ~~Portland~~ LA uses? Look at all this great stuff we’re doing! We must be from God!

As you’ve pointed out, lots of groups can point to successes, does that make them from God too?