I am not always very coherent these days. I’ve spent the last three fighting a cold. My wife is nursing our first and pregnant with our second – ergo Dad does a lot of work at home. As such, I feel the need to clarify some things I’ve written that didn’t match the idea in my mind when I wrote them.
The Pregnancy
Our first child was unintentional. Only the first child was unintentional. Our original plan was to wait until 2007 to have children, save money and travel in the meantime.
Our revised plan, after having the first child, was to have the second as soon as possible. The second child was planned. We totally planned to be pregnant this year with the second child. What was unexpected was how quickly she got pregnant once we started trying.
I don’t give names for myself, wife, or kids. I usually mention names in audio segments, though. Basically I do not want someone to Google my name and arrive here. I know that makes references confusing sometimes, even to me.
Hawaii
What the response of the folks from Oahu and even LA has been to Kip’s takeover bid is largely wonderful. It’s true I think these things should have been said years ago, but the fact it is being said at all is wonderful. I am greatly encouraged by how Oahu is handling a difficult situation. I hope the rest of us follow suit and learn from how they are dealing with the struggle. I intended to mention some further refinements without bashing the folks there. Having dealt with many, many similar situations, the last thing they need is ‘advice’. It is good that folks there are beginning to see the good that God has created in them. I firmly believe that when God writes his laws on our hearts, part of the intention is to be able to look inward and see good things, not just evil.
Unity Proposal
I really am trying to get away from it.
Portal Sites and Semithoughts
Unlike here, I usually don’t post raw thoughts on the other sites. I would have a window of Flock open all day long if I did that. My boss does expect me to get work done. However, it doesn’t keep me from writing at night or in the early morning. I have a bunch of scrap paper and Open Office document fragments all over three computers with various ideas. When I get my next weekend retreat to write, I hope to post all of it.
Dialogue with Edgar
Edgar is not a real person. The ‘I’ in the story is not me. This is a dialogue format similar to ‘Dialogue wit Trypho’. I’m using this vehicle to work out my own understanding of what is going on around me. Edgar represents many I have written to from high-up leaders to regular joes like me. Ian represents others, not just me, that struggle with various tensions about our involvement with the ICOC.
The big question is always, Why do you still go if what is going on bothers you so much? I do not accept the answer of I stay because of the relationships, though I know many that do. Some of us hold on because of sheer stubbornness. Why not? Some of us suffered abuse for 10, 15, 20 years, what’s another 10 at this point? The old expression Better the devil you know that the one you don’t is all too true in these cases. Some of us really cannot overcome the fear of ‘another church’ and all the anxieties that come with it. Not only is it new people, but it’s a new dynamic and hermenutic. The other church isn’t the Bogeyman, but that’s another series of posts entirely. Others still just do not know what to do and hover in stasis. I’ve been that way, so I understand the feeling that the entire world is in flux and that it would be nice if there was just a couple of stable things to lean on.
Back to the point, Edgar is going to address an issue that is brought up by conservatives in the ICoC. The issue is that people who are hurting over how things are going are 99% of the time, not reading their Bible. I believe the intent is to say that those with problems are not getting anything from their Bible Study. The underlying assumption is that if they were strong in their relationship with God, they wouldn’t have these issues. This assumption leads to another supposition that God’s spirit is talking to me through the Bible and I do not have issues. That leads to a conclusion that if the same Spirit speaks to you through God’s Word that speaks to me, you shouldn’t have any issues either.
Ian’s answer at this point will reflect some of my own struggles as of late, namely that I do not ‘get anything’ from my Bible Study recently. Every time I read, I hear old paradigms that I believe are wrong. When this happens everyday for several weeks, it gets difficult to want to read at all. I do read, but I can’t say that I ‘get’ much from it. At this point, I rely on non-ICoC sermons I can find on the internet, or sermons from our new minister. I can’t read the Gospel of Mark without thinking “Disciples obey immediately” and the implication often preached “Disciples follow without thinking about it, first”. I read Hebrews and keep redefining who the ‘circmcision’ group is in my life and hearing that missing one church meeting is a cardinal sin. I bailed out of Ephesians when I could not separate unity as mentioned in Ephesians and the UP mentioned by the Nine. Other bad associations follow like:Titus and Timothy is about raising up young evangelists. Revelation is a motivation to work harder for time is short. The prophets are the radical examples of how to live NT life. Exodus is the only definitive work that describes God, Nehemiah and Ezra are about building up the Kingdom. The list goes on. So far, only the Psalms, Ecclesiates, and some Proverbs feel safe, but even that has the association that those are the books that only weak people read. As such, it is difficult to see myself as weak in a godly sense (I can do nothing without God) as opposed to weak in a wordly sense (I am nothing and should do nothing until I feel better). The former says that nothing is impossible with God, the latter says nothing is possible even with God.
How this relates to the dialogue is that some critics are weak. Even if they are weak according to the horrible way the ICoC defined weak over the years, that weakness is not justification for dismissing the problems they see. I struggle to see God, others do, too. We’ve had enough pushing aside the weak because they interfere with the so-called Mission. Now we’re pushing aside ‘the weak’ because they interfere with so-called Unity. This is not right.
Other Bits
Acutally, that’s about it. As always, I don’t delete comments and I usually leave things I’ve written and make edits pretty obvious. (Ergo, this post.)
I can definetely relate to some of this. I do hear the same tapes sometimes – I’ve gone to listening to other non-ICOC speakers when I can. The mainline several of my friends attend just finished up a series on Nehemiah. Nehemiah….oh, boy….building….yada..but I listened anyway. Some was the same, but in the context of a mainline church, so it was different. And some was new, insightful info re a book I really, in some respects, was beginning to disdain.
As to why we stay….well, you listed most of my rotating list. I think, for us, we stay for the sake of the others there. We were on the mission team 15 years ago – we feel an obligation. That sounds a bit martyrish, doesn’t it? We don’t mean it that way. It’s just, at this point, we’re about the only 2 left that half a clue. And most folks are happy as clams. It’s enough to make you a little nuts. On top of that my husband had a long talk w/a former member (and occasional poster to ICCDF) re why it might be time for us to leave. And then, my husband called the LE that left to start his own group a year or so ago. I’m not sure what all was discussed but between the 2 calls, my husband spent the night sleeping on the couch, sleeping in the bed, sleeping in a chair, etc. because he couldn’t sleep very well.
Interesting times….
ttk
That’s all good stuff Pink. I think about you sometimes and wonder how you do it all. I appreciate your letter and I’m with you on all of it.
What ttk said is what I have felt and maybe you as well “we’re about the only 2 left that half a clue. And most folks are happy as clams.” I used to thank God in my prayers that I didn’t get to see all He sees and I’m glad I don’t. The pain and patience He must feel and have. Now in all this gunk I’ve felt a little like He must thinking that their blind people being led by blind guides and it drives me nuts. But, you can’t make someone think and you can’t make them drink. In my pride I’ve had aloof thoughts that look eerily similar to these and so I constantly question myself. I don’t know what to do but at times I’ve thought this whole hard aching process was allowed by God so that we may think, believe and have faith as individuals doing what we do for God and His glory.
If it’s any consolation when I became a member of the ICOC I couldn’t read parts of the Bible because my previous church empahsized them w/o the whole picture. Eventually that wore off. The last couple years it’s been hard for me to read the Bible too for the same reasons, with the ICOC, but that’s wearing off too. I used to be able to read like nothing but it was hard for me to stay focused and pray. Now, I confess, it seems easier to pray than read just don’t tell Salgoud.
Salguod? Who’s Salguod?
Just kidding. He won’t find out until he reads this comment.
Thanks for the thoughts BEG and TTK.
HA!
I love it! Ahem, sorry about that. Back in the day when BEG was only 2 miles away instead of, what, 650? I was the guy who didn’t like to read and struggled with it, but loved to pray. BEG was the reader who struggled in prayer. Funny, prayer for me isn’t as easy as it once was, but still easier than reading.
One thing I’ve found with my reading, though, is that I’ve abandoned the idea that I have to read daily. Now, I have to watch because that can play into my tendency to do anything but read, but over time – a long time – I found that I was longing to read. That hasn’t happened for me in years, frankly. At times I’ve gone weeks, even months, without reading (OK, that’s a bit extreme) but when I returned to it, it was because I longed to hear something from God.
What I’m saying is it’s OK to take a break and wait to feel God calling you back to it. Listen to messages, read spiritual books, talk to your brothers, pray, etc. Many of our first century, second century, etc. brothers and sisters couldn’t read or didn’t have access to the Bible, and they did OK.