So here we go. I wanted to get away from this, but the effects of setting up a Shibboleth continue to appear. I fully realize that this was most likely not the intent, but the effect is the same.
Those that didn’t sign are on their own, I guess.
It reminds me of various IT conferences where one of the sponsors wouldn’t allow a specific speaker/topic. Usually, the folks organize their own meeting at a coffeehouse.
For the church I attend, this technically means that some of the churches we currently work with won’t be at a meeting on Oct 11, but will be at our own meeting(or conference call) in September. I know what will really happen is that one of the signing churches will book the space and all 12 will attend - no one is going to stand at the door and check nametags.
Still, who will Calgary meet with? Everyone else in Canada didn’t sign. Maybe they can go to the moot across the street. I imagine that the New England folks will allow Boston to attend and the Florida churches will still invite Orlando to attend.
All of this still is separate from the other split that may happen - will Portland, Syracuse, Savannah, Santiago and others send a delegate? Probably not.
For a preview of how this will end, I invite everyone to read the history of Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God. There truly is nothing new under the sun.
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I would be delighted if the ICOC history ended up in the same manner as the Worldwide Church of God! But I’m not confident about that yet.
Two things took place that many former ICOC churches lack to date: wholesale reteaching about where our doctrine was in error; and determined outreach to the wider Christian world. The former took 10 painful years for WCOG members to work through — in contrast, in my ICOC congregation we had a few months of lessons about where we had strayed, and even those contained several elements of old thinking (e.g., put-downs of other groups, justifying ourselves, misuse of Scripture). Case in point: we dismantled 1-over-1 discipling but never taught why it was un-Scriptural. That’s why it’s now making a comeback.
The WCOG’s outreach to the wider Christian world is also commendable, given that they were met initially with skepticism and rejection until Bible Answer Man Hank Hanegraff stood up for them, saying that if they were trying to change, then other Christian groups should help them get there. How many Christian groups out there have that same heart for their local ICOC congregation, if we’d only allow them?
True enough. No effort to change by the powers that be makes their history quite different from where we are heading.
The parallels to me were the ten years of painful transition, despite everyone saying that our three year ordeal means that all of our troubles are behind us.
But you’re right - not a good analogy at all. I would like our history to go this way. Maybe I should’ve posted the history of the splinter group that held on to Armstrong’s beliefs.
As TTK noted in ICCDF, we non-signers could all meet at Denny’s. ‘Too bad I’m not going - I’d call a meeting of all SW region folks (signers and non-signers invited, maybe even Methodists) at the local Dave and Buster’s. We’d meet around the Table (pool table, that is), and break bread (if you count the tortillas in nachos as bread), and share our own cup (ok, stein) together.
[quote]Maybe I should’ve posted the history of the splinter group that held on to Armstrong’s beliefs.[/quote]
Do you know anything about what’s become of that group?
This is not all that surprising to me. The UP stipulated that the regional groups would meet periodically:
It will be more of a concern if the non-signers are not equally represented on the agenda of the remainder of the conference.
From the website
Wednesday, Oct. 11th is set aside for Regional groups to meet.
Regional Meetings will be held on Wednesday in lieu of holding a Missions Day.
The Missions Section will be included as part of the regular program.
To Alan’s point: If there is no longer a Missions Day and a Missions Section will now be part of the regular conference, and part of the UP was to discuss missions……it will also interesting to see if the Missions Section of the regular conference will be representative of non-signers as well.
ttk
Turns out, daughter, that there were almost 100 splinter groups.
Philadelphia COG, Church of God International, and one or two others are the major factions that still survive.
CGI more closely represents what is happening with Kip, more on that later.
Philadelphia seems to be close to what the ICoC is trying to do now.
Give me some time and I’ll write something up.
Alan: My understanding of meeting regularly was like our conference calls once a month. I was surprised to see a “Officially-One-Of-Us” sanctioned event as part of a conference, though.
The regional groups were supposed to nominate delegates at some point and send them to a worldwide conference to make decisions pertaining to issues that affect the church as a whole. As such, non-signing churches may participate this year, but after the delegates are elected, who knows?
Other regional groups are having issues as well. Seattle posted something about ministry and missions in the NW region and the Far East. Vancouver, non-signing, held a conference earlier this year with all the NW Churches. However, only Calgary (signing) received any help from or otherwise participated in the MnM program. I’m not saying that the exclusion of other Canadian churches was intentional. Those churches may not have wanted to participate in the program. However, it is difficult to talk about the NW region and see conspicuous absences of certain NW churches.
So to answer my own question, Calgary will meet with Seattle and the other NW churches. The other Candian churches will just arrive on Thursday, I guess.
i’m telling ya……color-coded nametags…
ttk
And so it begins….
Just now following up on this.
toeteaknow - You said the ILC web site says:
I couldn’t find that on the ILC site, where is it?
Funny, the UP says specificly that the day before the ILC will be a missions day:
Now the missions stuff is within the ILC, and the day before is just ‘regional meetings’. It’s a little dissapointing, but hardly surprising, that we’re changing the rules before we even got started. Par for the course.
Maybe it was just that those who would have had to ‘devote’ that day to missions wanted to play in the golf tournament.
I’m sure I’m just being a complainer and uncooperative.
If it looks like a fish and smells like a fish it’s a fish.
You have to look under the International info - that’s where I found it.
fwiw - someone I know emailed about this and got a response from Mike Fontenot. Apparently, they made this exclusive to the ’signers’ because one of the things they are suppose to do at these regional meetings is elect delegates to the great UP Poobah thingy - I can’t remember for sure - I know there was a mention of having delegates to go to UP meetings, etc. (guess if it’s from folks attending the Leadership conference, all the delegates will be ‘leaders’.)
Update……..as of today the reference to regional meetings reads as such:
Wednesday, October 11th has been set aside for Regional Meetings.
Regional Meetings are Optional.
These meetings are being coordinated for those Churches that desire to meet earlier as a Region. As long as there is space available, which is limited, we will be happy to coordinate a venue for you on Wednesday October 11th.
Contact your Regional Leaders for locations & start times.
Seems there has been a change of heart. Good to see.
ttk
Does this mean pool at Dave and Buster’s is off?
nah……just means now you can bring all your UP signing friends with you!
ttk
TTK - Actually the exact language you quoted above is still in the PDF. It’s hard to find, on the main page click on the link under the International VISA and then the link for the invitation at the bottom of that page and you’ll find this PDF.
Funny, the UP (as noted above) specifically sets aside the day before the ILC for a “missions day”. As far as regional meetings and choosing delegates, I just skimmed the UP again and it was not specific at all as to when or where that should happen. It was very specific on the day before the ILC being a missions day.
I’m sure they might think I’m being a little picky on this, but it’s just another example of changing the plans when it suits them. They put forth a document with specific instructions and even cautioned us to take the whole thing or nothing, but now they are changing the rules. It seems that on that specific thing they weren’t totally in agreement with after all.
You can’t have it both ways, requiring folks to hold to all or nothing and then quickly abandon part of it when it suits you.