This post was made after hearing messages from MOAC 2004. In essence, I considered five main issues:
- There are lots of words and few actions.
- There is searching to understand things that have been obvious for quite some time.*
- There is a perceived effort to be at peace first, unified second, then try to solve problems last.
- A perceived reluctance to outside perspective.
- The perceived search for global answers instead of local answers.
It’s a year later and the issues appear the same. I am still amazed at the ’shock and wonder’ that some leaders have about things that occurred in my life for 10+ years. There is all kinds of conjecture at our current issues including a comparison to the minor league baseball system, insights from Family Dynamics, a look at the discipling system, and reconstruction of our past structure. It still looks like all five are going on, except for the mention of outside influence in the discipling papaer.
I can’t be so insightful that no one else has thought of it. Maybe I am oversimplifying this whole mess. It seems to be more apparent than ever that leaders were more insulated from the issues of most members, especially leaders higher up the chain. Hearing what some have said, it looks like they are still writing papers only to each other. The phrase ‘out of touch’ is like comparing paprika to habenero.
Again, I hope that the forum at MOAC 2005 will yield something. Unfortunately, it is at least one year too late. On the positive side, however, it is actually addressing things that are important.
I just want things to be different, but I am growing more fearful that they will not. Specifically, I mean the teaching of discipling as philosphical instead of biblical, cooperation with other churches that are NOT ICC, job descriptions of lead evangelists that include visitation with members, full financial disclosure of church finances (past and present), biblical instruction from the text instead of conforming the text to enforce an ideal, and staff limits on the conferences they may attend. When I look for change in these areas, there is little to none. In New Jersey, they bring in a CoC minister for some Sundays. (YAY!) Family Dynamics is replacing the old system of ’submit or else’. There are even places where the Family Dynamics family series is replacing the “Go to your room until you’re happy” system. I dunno, just seems like places the bigwigs don’t have a lot of influence, there is a disposition to try new things, but places they go are propotionately conservative to their influence.
Maybe Thomas will be able to “work on” more churches (Scent of a Woman sermon, 07/24/05) and all of this is moot.
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5 Responses to “A Look Back at MOAC 2004”
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I wanted to respond to this post, but in truth, have wanted to respond to many of your post. For a while, I wasn’t able to, but I can now.
But here is my point. I have been reading your blog for a couple of years now, turned on by Salguod, and I would like to encourage you. This could just be me reading into your post, but it seems that you go through a great deal of difficulty and stress, due to your relationship with your church. It makes very little sense to me as to why you would remain within that fellowship? It seems to me that you have a great deal of contempt for the man who had initiated the paradigm and dogma that your church adheres to, and yet, you remain within that same said environment. Worse yet, you are bearing bad fruit (the bad fruit being the contempt and unloving sarcasm you have for Kip).
I was a member of the ICOC for 13 years. I had been a member of the Phoenix, Vegas, San Diego, and Columbus fellowships. For most of those years I was living with deep conviction that the ICOC was the kingdom of God, ergo whatever problems there was within the church, needed to be solved by and within the church.
Then I got sick, I mean really sick. At one point in my 17 week coma, I had a 3% chance of surviving. To God’s glorious grace, I did! But with severe physical damage to my body, of which, I could no longer conform to the performance oriented, works focused efforts of the McKean paradigm.
Since then, I have learned a great deal, and grown more than ever. In 2003, I left the ICOC whilst moving to a small town in eastern Kentucky, of which there is only a Mainline Church of Christ. We have attended and even pledged membership with this church and in many ways it has been an amazing situation. As in the McKean paradigm, I also see flaws in the Campbell paradigm. Regardless, it is still the best game in town, and if the bible is about anything, it’s about loving God’s people.
But we also would have left the ICOC regardless. The main reason is that it became apparent that the doctrinal arrangements of the ICOC were harmful to our faith, and our relationship with God. The main reason is the unbiblical requirement placed on the brothers and sisters for the propagation of membership. I could no longer share my faith knowing that what was “required” for baptism within the church was unbiblical.
This opened my eyes to so much more. I would be glad to share it with you, should you choose to email me. But in short, it has become evident that there is a difference between apostolic requirements and believer requirements, the great commission (Matthew 28:18-20
) is really a false teaching, and the will of God is not world evangelism. Evangelist are not meant to lead a church, and an eight study prerequisite for baptism is spiritually a false teaching and a humanistic requirement and burden.
But more so, I couldn’t remain in a spiritual environment with which I was building resentment like a slowly constructed tower. It just became bigger and bigger, and bigger. I had to repent. It was damaging my ability to love some of the brothers with whom was consistently giving in to humanistic 20 year old tradition, and not the will of the father.
Realizing that the entire effort of the scripture is for me to love other people, it was important that I not allow footholds lurch in my heart, and I couldn’t do that in the ICOC.
Too often, I read your post, and your conflicting heart, and your wearisome spirit, and think to myself, this brother needs a serious change of scenery. If you are to the point where you have resentments in your heart, regardless of whether or not you are a teacher, you should perhaps try another fellowship (perhaps in a MCoC) for a little while. Perhaps a month, perhaps a year would suffice. But seriously, I don’t think that you are soberly listening to yourself with a clear heart. You may be, and I may be way off track, which wouldn’t be the first time. If so, I apologize right here and now. I am very sorry and would hope that nothing I say will cause a riff between us, or a dibilitating resentment, but I feel as though I have waited long enough.
I write all this in the love that is allowed through Christ, and hope that you receive so!
By the way, you are welcome to come to my blog and correct my sinful heart, for I am always needing a new perspective and a loving brothers correction!
Hello Paul,
I read your blog frequently and enjoy your thoughts.
As far as what you have written, it does not cause resentment in me at all. Everything that I write is open for discussion. I have always contended that what I write is a function of working out thoughts that enter my mind, not always the conclusions.
I am quite happy in my local church environment. I am accepted and loved and do not have to deal with a bunch of weirdness. My issues come from the connection with the former ICoC.
I’ve spent time talking to other ministers - a ministers from a Souther Baptist in town, a CoC, a Vineyard church, etc. I still look for more cooperation with them instead of against them.
My conflict is with those that purport to be leaders when they went along with the system the entire time. Why should I listen to them now when it took HKL for them to be public about the need for change?
More later when I have time, have to go for now. Thanks again for your kind words.
I’m back, Fred.
Why do I keep charging at windmills? Honestly, I hope for change. The only way to evoke change is to stay and fight. I don’t discredit anyone for leaving - I may have to do that eventually, myself. As long as I hope for change, though, I cannot do anything about my hope from the outside. Because of this hope, I feel compelled to see it through to the very end. Otherwise, I will continue to struggle with these issues but then handicap myself to do anything about what I struggle with.
Does that make sense? No slam on you at all.
I don’t feel slamed at all. I respect that fact that you have hope. I think the conclusion that I came to is that no matter how hard I want apples to taste like oranges, they never will. Hey, I was raised on apples (figuratively speaking), and I commend your efforts. To my understanding, with what I came to conclude is that foundationally many of the old, McKean dogmas were/are not biblically sound. I don’t know where your church is, and don’t presume to (although I did earlier), I just hope that the most important thing, is that your love has no self induced blockades. As a Christian and a holy man, I love you, and only hope that you may prosper. It seems as though you have a great sobriety and faithfulness. Perhaps I spoke beyond my own understanding of the situation. May God bless you and all those you love.