pinakidion.*
A writing tablet for my thoughts
Civil War
Author: John18 Dec
As the old saw states, there is nothing civil about a war, especially this one.
According to his sermon delivered yesterday, Kip is moving to LA in March 2007. I really do not believe that there will be a clear winner in this contest. However, I do think it is going to be ugly. What will happen at the big brouhaha meetings, now?
The ICC is coming to Manhattan as well in summer 2008.
His highness has also wept the loss of the Chile churches, but has gained a congregation in Estonia and another in Congo. Now he has one on every continent.
Matthew 12:43-45
seems to ring true - the LA ICC being emptied, swept clean and put in order is about to have something worse happen. So it was with Jesus’ generation, so it appears to be with ours.
Granted, generation meaning ICoC and ICC people. The whole of Christendom has little time or notice of Kip, Bruce, Al, or any of the other castaways.
I feel badly for the folks in Russia and Eastern Europe. Next to Chicago, the North and East regions of the LA church provide the most financial support to the ICoC churches in the former Soviet empire. $300K is hard to replace by a group of US churches that are very small. Then again, if the money from LA dries up, maybe the Eurasian Missions folks will not give a 25K kickback to the Chicago church while remaining underfunded. That, however, is another story entirely. (Believe it or not, I’d still send money to this organization, but only as restricted funds. Except for this one and hopefully solitary lapse of ethics by the board, the finances have been handled well. Couple this with an unheard level of openness…)
I’ve heard about ministers visiting the small churches out there and it was encouraging news. Maybe I am sentimental again, but having grown up at the very end of the Cold War, there is something about working with Christians in Siberia that is appealing to me. More importantly, when people go to actually help others it means something.
Back to the matter at hand, calling it a Civil War may be overstated. Maybe sectarian violence is a more appropriate term. However, this conflict doesn’t involve violence against blood and bone - it is the violence against mind and soul.
Sycarion Stories
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- Ideas for now 7/15/2008
- EABA Contributions Site 6/19/2008
- Tomorrow 6/17/2008
- Do You Have Cheddar? 6/12/2008
10 Responses for "Civil War"
What church does Kip have in Asia?
As I watch, I can’t help be reminded of the 80’s. Although I didn’t live through it (I was baptized in 1988), it seems that as the decade progressed Kip continued to label the ML COC as lukewarm & uncommitted and the ML kept saying he was judgemental and divisive. They were both right and both wrong, yet refusal to acknowledge the other side’s point nor their side’s sin lead to a great divide that has yet to heal.
And here we are, 20-ish years later in the same place. Kip says the ML ICOC is lukewarm and uncommitted and the ML ICOC leaders say he’s judgemental and divisive. Will we not learn from history? I think not, we haven’t yet. Does the creation of another divide not bother anyone else? Doesn’t seem to. We’d rather be ‘right’ than one.
I’m hoping that some more will and, like Salt Lake, will refuse to take sides and point fingers. I’m not holding my breath, though.
Between Kip’s reaction to Chile (that’s the correct spelling of the delicious fruit, also) and the UP crowd (I guess that’s “us” for me, since my congregation caved in ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ratified) spending all of that time touting who signed on, one thing has been made clear to me.
It’s about who is with who. Jesus? I’m not sure there’s room for him in this mix.
Salguod: somehow, I suspect there may be some folks who’d like to “explain the UP” to poor Jay in Salt Lake. You know: Just so he understands that it doesn’t *really* mean what it says. Hmmm… I wish we’d chosen to stand alongside them instead of picking sides, though.
It would be nice, Mark. I’m afraid that it is too late. Both sides were too entrenched well before now.
On the other hand, I don’t think it is right to be ‘one’ with Kip. He is a false teacher and trying to be at peace with him should not be called ‘unity’. Salt Lake wants to be unified with Kip and the ICoC. I see this as pretending that Kip is just not really a bad guy after all.
We have to reap what we have sown, now. We did the UP thing, a bad idea. We did nothing about Kip until he became a threat to a large church, another bad idea. Even when we did do something, we made it about him and not his theology, a remarkably bad idea. We claim that the 80s is a matter of conviction and that current events are a matter of ego, a catastrophe at best. All of these bad ideas lead to something ‘worse’ that Henry’s letter - a slow decay.
MinistersEvangelists I have talked to keep saying that Kip will amount to nothing. Ultimately, yes, this is true. But now we are going to have the Bruce/Al vs. Kip battle. I think you and I both know that the goal on both sides is to be the largest one left standing. I imagine this will happen when they are both around 300 - 400 members.But what do I know? I’ve been wrong before and I certainly hope I am wrong now.
I would not say that it will amount to nothing. There is a real threat of division in many congregations over this, especially overseas. Apparently it is already starting in Africa.
And in Northern Virginia, and in England, and in Russia, and in SE Asia…
. Have you heard how GM’s trip there went?
MT is very protective of Africa; it will be interesting how things go.
So, Alan…..did you remember to ’smile’?
ttk
As I was standing with my daughter at the back of the church, preparing to walk her down the aisle, I remembered ttk admonishing me to smile! And so I smiled. Thanks for the good advice!
Yea!!! I hope all went great!
(fyi - my brothers, both attorneys, gave me away. It looked like a Mafia bride being walked down the aisle by bodyguards. If that sight didn’t scare my soon-to-be husband off, I figured nothing would!!)
ttk
I don’t think Kip is from God. If he isn’t what he does will fail and if he is there is nothing anyone can do to stop him. (Acts 5:35-39
) Will it go on for awhile, perhaps but who cares. If your not in it for the long haul it won’t matter anyway. My point is what Mark says above. “It’s about who is with who. Jesus? I’m not sure there’s room for him in this mix. :(” is true. We need to focus on Jesus and this other stuff will seem silly/crazy like it is.