Recently, I went off on the ICC Discussion Forum (no link provided) on a thread about reformed ICC churches. In case you don’t know, I’m very proud of my church and how far we’ve come and how bright the future appears. We’re not better than anyone and we certainly haven’t arrived – it’s just that I feel safe going to church and have no problems inviting my friends and family to it. I thought I’d never feel that way again.
Here is the text of my post. The situation was that I was talking to someone that has a son in the ICC. In his view, there are concrete steps that a church can do to demonstrate change. The one I reference is the publishing of the bylaws. I don’t see anything wrong with that, though it does not appear to be common that a church releases its bylaws. In an internet search, I found only 3 sets of bylaws available online. However, I still don’t think it’s too much to ask.
What I do not like is the peanut gallery chiming in about how this demonstrates that nothing has changed. The peanut gallery are those that simply hate anything ICC and only want the annihilation of the ICC. Like Jesus said of these people,
“To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others: “ ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge and you did not mourn.’”
13403.57 in reply to 13403.54
Allen,
I think you know me by now. Remember, you sent me the 2001 Administrative Guide and sure enough, it never arrived here. Until two years ago, we were still using the 1997 Administrative policies.Now, we don’t use any of them.
On a side note, someone that moved here recently from San Fran asked if we contributed to the ICC Corporation (apparently SF does) and the reply was that we do not. No one contacted us to collect it. (I know we didn’t contribute because I was part of the group that made the decision not to.) I thought it was odd that SF is contributing to a corporation that is supposed to no longer exist.
I asked for the new bylaws, when I get them, you’ll have them. Otherwise, if you do not like the speed with which I am working, I suggest you get them from the IRS. On even the State of Nebraska. They are on file as well as a record of our recent transactions, I am just a cheapskate and do not want to pay a fee. (Last time I looked the state charged a fee, but that may have been different documents altogether)
(rant on – not to Allen)
Of course, I suspect that the chorus will start up that I am ignorant or avoiding the issue or have my head in the sand.Bring it on, I can put on ignore just as well as anybody else, why not add to the list.
Good grief, I thought the old ICC crowd was catty and nitpicky and oh-so-high-and-mighty. I guess it comes from the training. Guess what guys, you’re still acting like the ICC even if you’ve been out for years. Glad to know that I can find a place to share what I know as someone in leadership in my church, you know?
Rewrote the study series – doesn’t matter, I’m an idiot. I’m too inbred to know any different.
Built bridges to local churches (Vineyard and Church of Christ, soon to be Christian Church). – Oh well, I’m still old school that thinks only the ICC is going to Heaven.
Fought to end support for HOPE because of their shady dealings – Oh my goodness, that can’t last. Surely Bob and Pat will boohoo their way into the minister’s pocketbook so that he can donate all our money to them.
You know, I find a bit of happiness after a decade of abuse in the ICC and all I get is “you’ll never hear about the bylaws again”. Thanks. Appreciate it. Enjoy the friendships, I really do. Long memories around these parts. I guess it’s what have you done for me lately – not surprising, most ICC leaders are that way.
GUESS WHAT – I AM NOW MARRIED AND SHE IS MY NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. NOT THE CHURCH, NOT YOU, NOT MY BLOG, NOT DELPHIFORUMS, NADA.
Guess that will show me – folks around here will turn on you in a second. I thought the fake ICC friends I had were like that – I guess all of mankind is like that. Oh well.
(/rant)
I’ll email Allen, he can post them if he’d like. Otherwise, good riddance to all of you.
Unfortunately, a good friend considered this an attack on him. He asked me to clarify and I hope that my response cleared it up. He left the ICC in Minnesota, but I don’t consider him one of the peanut gallery. I consider him and his wife friends of Laryssa and I and I hope my frustrated rant did not damage that.
Anyway, the big deal about this is in regards to the ICC Discussion Forum. I made some friends, I thought, and was able to keep in touch with folks I knew across the country. However, it has lately turned into a place without much serious discussion. There are very few reform minded people there – instead a groupthink culture obsessed with a church that they believe will never change. How sad is that?
Now Allen works because of friends and family inside the ICC. He has seen it tear his family apart, so I can respect what he is trying to do, even when I disagree with him. Some others are part of ‘recovery’ groups, so I understand their involvement as well. However, the vast majority had no vested interest outside of socialization with others in the Ex-ICC subculture. Nothing wrong with that except that this subculture seems to dictate a few things that is abrasive and offensive to those of us trying to promote change:
1. The ICC will never change
2. There is a conspiracy run by Thomas or some other big leader to bring back the old days.
3. No one within the ICC can understand what change is.
4. All evangelists are paid way too much.
5. Current members are either blind or stupid for maintaining membership.
Don’t think so? Post a message that you believe your church has changed and these are the responses you get, especially statement 5. Frankly, I resent the implication that I am somehow mentally defective for staying here and fighting for real change.
Enjoy your haterade – drink a whole case.